Talk:Dora Milaje (Earth-616)
Pronunciation The Dora Milaje (pronounced "dora-meh-LAH-shay") r|Black Panther Vol 3 3 is what the article says currently. There doesn't appear to any pronunciation guide that issue judging by the collected volume 1. Black Panther Vol 3 2 says *DOR-ah muh-LAH-jay -- J & J The asterisk is a note from Black Panther's dialogue translated from Hausa. Black Panther Vol 3 17 says *Dor-AH May-LAH-jay = "ADORED ONES" --TOM The asterisk is a note from Queen Divine Justice's English dialogue. Maybe the second one is how Queen Divine Justice is pronouncing it, explaining the weird i=ay. Is that what you meant, Tom? --Nyktimos (talk) 05:07, January 3, 2017 (UTC) :To be noted that an alternative pronounciation is given in Black Panther: World of Wakanda Vol 1 2.Undoniel (talk) 07:25, January 3, 2017 (UTC) Rebels Shouldn't they be the "Midnight Angels (Rebels) (Earth-616)" instead ? I recalled the duo then the tribe/group to be called "Midnight Angels" but never "Dora Milaje".Undoniel (talk) 18:48, January 24, 2017 (UTC) :I believe it's correct as is. They began as two Dora Milaje who rebelled after discovering T'Challa was working with Namor in . They stole the Midnight Angel armor after being arrested for their insubordination (and possibly their personal relationship) in , then continue to identify themselves as Dora Milaje to Mandla in , and Hodari explains that even more Dora Milaje rebelled to join the renegades in . -- Annabell (talk) 19:19, January 24, 2017 (UTC) ::I rechecked my issues. ::When I talk about the duo (an the page), it started with their jail break. They were still Dora Milaje when T'Challa lose their loyalty, that's not the question. ::The armor is from the Midnight Angels and/or named Midnight Angel armor (that second point seems correct, cf and the resume ), that's okay for me. ::Hodari's presentation in doesn't state they call themselves Dora Milaje but simply that some of them sided with the renegades (presumably leaving the Dora Milaje, or consequently expelled from them). ::What I'm telling is the resumes starting from , the duo is named "Midnight Angels". They also presented themselves as the "Midnight Angels" in and . and resumes establish them as the Midnight Angels. Again in , Aneka included Mbali as part of their team. ::Their introduction to Mandla could simply be to recall him they are Dora Milaje (because that's what they are, even though they aren't members of the organization). ::Undoniel (talk) 21:39, January 24, 2017 (UTC) :::So you concede that they're rebel Dora Milaje, who continue to call themselves Dora Milaje, and that Hodari says even more Dora Milaje rebelled thereafter, but you think they should be called something else, even though the overwhelming majority of them don't have Midnight Angel Armor? -- Annabell (talk) 22:02, January 24, 2017 (UTC) ::::Please re-read the issues, including the resumes: Both the characters involved on the team in the issues and the resumes presents them as the Midnight Angels (a group different from the original Midnight Angels, whom they presumably share the name due to the armor they stole, who was presumably destined to the original Midnight Angels). The armor doesn't make the membership of a team. ::::For example, the resume of present them in the text "rogue Dora Milaje", but the presentation of the characters label them as Midnight Angels. ::::The name Dora Milaje is however used in resume when it is stated they broken away under the direction of the Midnight Angels (then referred as Ayo and Aneka). The term Dora Milaje is that point used to talk about the whole team (while the presentation of characters still present the pair as Midnight Angels). But then, when Tetu and the rebel Dora Milaje group have a meeting, he call them "Midnight Angels". Later, Tetu's ally mentions them as "rogue Dora Milaje". ::::To me, "Dora Milaje" is just used to characterize them (like "X-Man" or "mutant" to Wolverine: that's what he is, and what they are is Dora Milaje, despite not being part of the team). Later, Aneka presents herself as Captain of the Midnight Angels (seemingly her current team, not the original ones she's not known to be part of) and Captain of the Dora Milaje (what she was -she is even called "a renegade Captain of the Dora Milaje"-, presumably consider herself one, and seemingly try to recall the Wakandans who she is), then tell about her group as "the Midnight Angels". ::::We can wait for more issues to confirm, but I think there is plenty enough of material up here. ::::Undoniel (talk) 22:45, January 24, 2017 (UTC) I edited the page while re-reading the whole arc so far, and it's really that: They're a group of Dora Milaje (composed of actual "renegade" Dora Milaje and of civilian women, banded as Dora Milaje) calling themselves Midnight Angels, while sometimes referring and referred to as Dora Milaje, mainly due to their composition and leadership, but also to their posture.Undoniel (talk) 01:18, January 25, 2017 (UTC) :I believe the term Midnight Angels is a reference to the specific pair of Aneko and Ayo leading the rebel Dora Milaje, not the group as a whole, but we're simply going in circles here, so best to wait for others to weigh in on the subject rather than constantly rehash the same points. -- Annabell (talk) 01:29, January 25, 2017 (UTC) ::I agree with Annabell. The revolutionary group as a whole is the Dora Milaje, while Aneko and Ayo are the Midnight Angels. The group referers to themselves and are refered to as Dora Milaje in the story, recap pages (the recap for issue #9 specifically makes a distinction between the rebel Dora Milaje and the Midnight Angels, stating that the Dora Milaje are "under the direction of the Midnight Angels-- Ayo and Aneka") and solicits (namely the solicit for issue #6, which reads "RISE OF THE DORA MILAJE!"). --The ADour-incible ADour (talk) 01:36, January 25, 2017 (UTC) :::On the duo/group meaning: the Midnight Angels does refer to the leading duo, but not exclusively: Mbali in #4 and Tetu and Aneka in #9 used the term to refer to the group (but yep, more material will clear the whole thing).Undoniel (talk) 03:23, January 25, 2017 (UTC) ::::Black Panther #10 has only material for the Midnight Angels to be the leaders of the rebel Dora Milaje. ::::An unclear point would be: Is there still a regular Dora Milaje corps ? We don't hear or see much of them. At some point, we will maybe have to consider the rebels as a "proper" Dora Milaje faction or as the team itself (like the X-Men after Schism, whose pages were finally remerged) (but that will depend on the outcome of the current events, I'm just raising a point for now).Undoniel (talk) 08:55, January 26, 2017 (UTC) :::::I believe the proper Dora Milaje are supposed to be the government-sanctioned royal bodyguards. So even if these Dora Milaje end up being composed by the entirety of the royal Dora Milaje, they still wouldn't be the real Dora Milaje in the eyes of the monarchy. --The ADour-incible ADour (talk) 00:05, January 27, 2017 (UTC) ::::::Well, if it's the group that change its purpose, they would remain THE Dora Milaje.Undoniel (talk) 20:00, February 15, 2017 (UTC) And then renders this entire debate academic, as the rebel Dora Milaje were the real Dora Milaje acting undercover. -- Annabell (talk) 07:43, March 18, 2017 (UTC)